Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

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Bearcx
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Bearcx » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:10 pm

I'm pretty sure, it has to do with how water is expelled from the centre of the tread, to the outside. If you mount it the wrong way round, you may encourage water to sit in the centre of the tyre. Don't want that. !!!
The brave may not live long, but, the cautious do not live at all.

Neo Dutch
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Neo Dutch » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:04 am

That's the theory. If there is a directional arrow, then that's the way it should run.
Don't let your luggage define your travels.

KBG
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by KBG » Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:35 pm

Dual flange hub, Easy fix just turn the wheel around, put the sprocket where the disc is and disc where the sprocket is.
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Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:12 pm

No directional pattern on this tyre.

Re dual flange. Before trying KBG's idea, measure distance flanges extend past the rim... mine (before I put on the Honda hub) differed by about 5mm... not sure if all HD flanged rims are different or just some models.

Let's know how yours is.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

KBG
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by KBG » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:57 pm

Prof wrote:No directional pattern on this tyre.

Re dual flange. Before trying KBG's idea, measure distance flanges extend past the rim... mine (before I put on the Honda hub) differed by about 5mm... not sure if all HD flanged rims are different or just some models.

Let's know how yours is.
Do you mean the flanges are not symmetrical or the rim was laced to one side 5mm?
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Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:41 pm

Flanges not symmetrical.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Neo Dutch
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Neo Dutch » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:56 am

That is true. Hubs are not omnidirectional.
Don't let your luggage define your travels.

KBG
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by KBG » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Neo Dutch wrote:That is true. Hubs are not omnidirectional.
Didnt know that. maybe all mine are early ones or front only,All the hubs Ive got are symmetrical, I thought to use on front and rear to rotate tires on flhs
Like you can with mid stars.
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Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:08 pm

My 81 shovel came standard with a dished rear sprocket. To get the gearing I wanted (lower than stock) I spun the wheel around which allowed me to use a flat Sportster sprocket. As I was setting up a Honda CBR rear brake calliper that side didn't matter as I was starting from scratch.

Now I run a CB750 drum rear hub and 16" rim (both Big Twin and CB750 use 48 Tooth sprockets).
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

gsand
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:06 pm

Thanks for the info guys. Yes, the easy way to do is take it apart and switch the rotor/sprocket back around. I put this way to have the less rusty side of the rim on the brake site, the rusty side will get covered in oil from the chain! I must say, the way it's set up now is the opposite from when I was riding it - and the brake caliper lined up pretty good... I will have to measure but it seems the hub is symmetrical.

In other news... I have a motor!!! Just got the bottom end back from being freshened up, new bearings, bushes and seals etc, a new camshaft too. However somewhere along the way there was a breakdown in communication - the cases didn't get bead blasted :cry: :cry: :cry:. I'm just going to deal with it for now and assemble the rest of the motor, and hopefully I can remove most of the stains and clean up the cases by hand with chemical assistance.

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Now onto the work. First thing to do was to install the lifter blocks as this is a pretty straight forward task - mainly to block off two big openings that crap might find it's way into. Because I'm running solid lifters, the oil feed to the lifter blocks needs to be blocked off, otherwise the push rod covers fill up with oil and definitely spray it out everywhere. The easy way to do this is to use early Pan gaskets that don't have the oil hole in em - but this is the proper way.

Using an 8-32 taper tap, turn it into the angled holes on the lifter block underside, until the tap produdes a few MM into the lifter bore. Then we use 8-32 x 3/16" grub screws and a teenie dob of locktite to seal them up. You cant thread it all the way though otherwise the grub screw has nothing to tighten against.

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You can just see the little bugger in there...
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Next I thoroughly oiled the new (new old stock) solid lifters and their roller bearings, slid them into the lifter blocks and sat them over their home without forgetting to put Cometic gaskets between. Colony bolts and tapered lock washers finish it off nicely.

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With those two holes now covered up, I'm moving on to the other two much larger ones :D

Here you can see everything layed out, fresh .030" bore and a wiseco pistons kit.

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First thing we got to do is check the ring gaps. One by one insert a ring into the cylinder, push it down using a piston to keep it square and measure the gap with feeler guages. .010" to .020" is acceptable, all of mine came up at .014"-0.15.

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And finally for now here's a piston with all it's hoops in their spot.

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Tonight's work is to clean clean clean the cylinders (you need to remove every trace of the honing abrasive) and hopefully get the pistons mounted up and cylinders on!! Maybe even heads too :D

Stay tuned I should have more to report by tomorrow

Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:31 pm

Looking good. Remember to support the pistons and conrods (side to side movement). You may need to ream the little ends. An adjustable reamer is used for this... unfortunately I don't have one for them.

Can't wait to hear her rumbling again on a few runs.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

gsand
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:59 am

As promised, got most of the top end put together last night.

Some people will say to insert the piston into the bottom of the cylinder and then put the whole lot onto the motor at once. This is probably easier if you have 2 people but not possible by yourself. I chose to mount up the pistons to the rods and then drop the cylinders over the top.

First step is to insert the wrist pin circlip into one side of each piston. The first clips are such a pain to get in as then tend to roll past their groove and go further into the piston boss. Next up was to lube the wrist pin and bushes with assembly lube. Not only does it go together easier but it's provides extra protection at first start up. Once the piston and pin are in place, the 2nd circlip goes in much much easier because you have the edge of the wrist pin to work against and helps guide the circlip to its groove. Another thing is to orientate the opening of the circlip 180 degrees away from the notch in the piston boss.

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Now onto the cylinders. After being bored and honed you need to remove every trace of the abrasive material. Simpy washing with solvent won't do it. I went to the supermarket and bought the thickest rubber gloves I could find and the most coarse plastic brushes, and filled up the laundry sink with water as hot as I could handle and a good amount of dish washing detergent. Scrub scrub scrub away, I think I spent about 15 minutes on each cylinder. Once you think you've made progress here, take the cylinder out and dry the bulk off with a towel. Then I took the cylinder outside and blasted it with compressed air to remove any other water.

Here is the cylinder having a very hot bath in detergent.
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Now is the next step of wiping down the cylinder walls with oil. I set myself up with a little plastic tub with some engine oil in it (the oil that is going to be used in the bike). Using paper towel folded up, dip it in the oil and rub away at the cylinder walls, making sure you cover the whole length of the cylinder. The towel will get gray almost from the first wipe, that is more of the honing abrasive being picked up out of the bores. Keep getting fresh paper towel, dunking them in and oil wiping the bores. You wan't the paper towel to come out of the cylinder the same golden colour as when you dunked it in oil. Eventually after 15 or 20 passes you'll achieve this and the job is done. There are stories online of people using ATF as a mid step between the detergent bath and oil wiping, but I think this just makes cuts down the time required to achieve clean walls.

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And here are the results of wiping down with oil. The stack of towels on the left show the first wipe, through to the final wipe on the right which comes out as clean as it goes in.
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Now the cylinders are ready to go onto the motor, you'll have a film of oil on the cylinder walls from the previous step. The matter of oiling pistons when installing them is as controversial as running in procedures, going from completely dunking the cylinders in a tin of oil, to a thin wipe on the skirt and finally installing them completely dry. Modern day machining and ring technology would lead me to install them dry, but I would only do that If I could press a button and the motor starts. Because I'm kickstarting, it'll probably be a little bit of work before the engine is really alive and pumping. With my finger I wiped a film of oil on the skirt of the piston, and sparingly around the edge of the rings.

Now, Prof, in regards to what you said about supporting the conrod and piston from side play. I didn't support the rods but I was very aware of the issue and as such took great care in installing the cylinder. I held the weight of the cylinder at all times until it was bottomed down on the cases. Once the piston skirt was into the cylinder I rotated the crank to pull the piston and cylinder down to the case. Spin 2 cylinder base nuts on and then you can turn the crank some more and the pistons will come back up ready to fit then next one.

Overall the rear cylinder went on easy using my homemade piston ring compressor which consists of a strip of plastic cut from an icecream tub and a hoseclamp. It put me in a good mood for the front cylinder...
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Well of course the front cylinder didn't want to play the game, I had five attempts at getting it on and the cylinder kept getting caught on the top oil rail. Keeping calm and not wanting to cause any damage I ditched the ring compressor, gently offered up the cylinder and pushed each ring into place with my fingernail - worked first time... :lol: :lol:

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Now the stressful part is out the way, we can relax a little bit!

Spun on my new oil pressure gauge, part of the collection of bits I brought back with me from the USA earlier this year.

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Cylinder base nuts... The chrome ones on the right I obtained from Prof, and the look pretty cool indeed. They go on easily to the front cylinder, but foul on the rear cylinder in two places. They will fit but you have to lift the cylinder and get them started on the studs to clear the lower cylinder fin.... Bugger. This is ongoing now. I'll point out that I am assembling everything up loosely from now on, not torquing anything it's required. I have to decide what to do with base nuts before I torque them down, plus i'd like to replace one of the case bolts that's bothering me so I'll do that before the cylinders are torqued down...

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Next up!! Head gaskets! I'm using a Cometic gasket kit for the whole top end which are all sandwich steel gaskets. The head gaskets are unique in that they are 3 layers riveted together. Headgaskets can only go on one way so just line up the 5 head bolt holes and the 1 oil drain hole... If it doesn't match up you've got much bigger problems!!

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So what comes after head gaskets?

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WOOOOO!!!!! Now we're starting to look like a motor again. Here's my original heads that have had the works done to em - Bead blasted, new valve seats, cast iron valve guides, seals, springs, retainers. Really nice work too. I'll point out here that I had the heads and bottom end done by two different places. Mark Hood did the heads and I highly recommended his work. The bottom end... :?

Now I got the heads just sitting on the cylinders, A keen eye will notice socket headbolts. I got these cos I thought they'd be pretty neat, in actual fact they are a pain to install with an allen key and of course you can't get a socket adapter onto em. I think I will replace em with some regular hex head bolts with the same head size as the base nuts, then I can use the one special tool to torque both headbolts and base nuts. On another note... it's been IMPOSSIBLE to find good 7/16" high tensile flat washers. I've tried both United and Coventry Fasteners and all their washers are oversize. A 7/16" washer from them is really loose fitting over the bolt and used only half the contact area of a socket bolt head. The closest thing I could find was getting M10 HT washers and drilling them out to 7/16" but with a brand new drill bit it went blunt after drilling through 3 off them.... I got frustrated and gave up. Ho hum, more issues... perhaps I'll just go and get a Colony headbolt set with everything in it :oops:

And I'll leave you with one more picture for this weekend... Rocker boxes on just to give the illusion of a complete motor! I am still waiting on a few parts to come in, mainly rocker shaft end plugs, then I can reassemble the rocker boxes and attach. Can't remember if I posted a picture of these before, I had polished them on my home buffer, but couldnt get into the middle of the 'U' shape and they were pretty dirty. I wasn't fussed because I was using fatbob tanks that pretty much consume the top of the motor... Now i've got the high mount tank everything is on show. I thought long and hard and did a bunch of perving on other shovels online. I decided to go with a beadblast on the rocker boxes to match the cylinder heads, and will be finished off with chrome/stainless hardware. I think it should look nice...

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Alright guys that's me signing out!!

KBG
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by KBG » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:00 pm

Looking good!
( you prob already know to) Make sure you line the manifold up before tightening the heads.
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gsand
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:38 pm

Yep KGB aware of that. Well I just couldn't stay out of the shed this weekend, I had to make something... So I made a new shifter to replace the old dodgy looking temporary one I made a year ago.

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Rolled the bike out into the sun for the first time with its new tank...

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Bearcx
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Bearcx » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:05 am

Lookin' GOOD ! following with interest. Pics are excellent.
The brave may not live long, but, the cautious do not live at all.

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