Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

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gsand
Posts: 268
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Interests: Riding bikes.

Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:21 pm

Those exhausts.... I liked them, they were sacrificed in a moment of weakness :cry: Down the road I will get the bent up out of one piece.

We have a running motor, sort of. By running I mean that it has run - briefly - but that is all. We've got some problem solving to do here, this is the longest I have had it running so far, and I've been kicking for hours over the last few days. To say I'm a bit sore would be a fair statement.

I'm positive the ignition timing is correct, check twice and checked again. Points are gapped properly and evenly, .018" on both lobes. Pushrod lash is fine, new plugs, tried two different coils and two different carburettors with no change in result. Occasionally I will get a single fire out of one cylinder but rarely it'll carry on a bit longer. I'm sure the timing is correct going by the points and timing marks on the flywheels.

Going to ditch all the fuel I have and replace it with new stuff straight out of the pump.

Just spoken to Prof on the phone and had a bit of a brainstorm... We came up with the possibility of dud sparkplugs, and the even more remote chance that the engine builder actually fudged up the cam timing. I've had loads of engines run poorly but I've never had one fail to run all together. I've been recording the starting attempts in the hope that I will get "the first start". Over 3 days of kickstarting this is all I could get. Even here, it was a struggle to keep it alive and it just died out by itself quickly.

Enjoy the brief burble out the pipes and feel my pain right now!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aCXf-qCL0Q

Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:24 am

A further thought Glenn... are your plugs wet after kicking through a number of times. If not it is likely a fuel issue. Pull off fuel hose to make sure fuel is running out of tap. If not check filter in tap also tank may not be breathing forming a vacuum.

High or low float levels can also cause trouble you are having which seems odd as the carbies worked on it before... still double check that fuel is coming through.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Bearcx
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Bearcx » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:26 pm

Never owned a HD, but symptons sound like fuel. Blocked filter ? How does the petcock work on the tank, is it vacuum or free flow ? Got an air cleaner on it ?
The brave may not live long, but, the cautious do not live at all.

Youngblood
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Youngblood » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:53 pm

Never owned a HD, but symptons sound like fuel. Blocked filter ? How does the petcock work on the tank, is it vacuum or free flow ? Got an air cleaner on it ?
Good thinking Bearcx even though this is not my personal problem but my Harley has a vacuum petcock on the tank, do you think by the lack of a air filter that there may not be enough vacuum to open up the fuel line? What about a hi flow filter could that also affect the vacuum? Just curious.
Youngblood

gsand
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: South Australia
Interests: Riding bikes.

Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:14 pm

Petcock is a manual on/reserve/off jobbie, with filter. This one.

An air cleaner will be fitted of course, but just for getting the motor started it'll make no difference. With the filter off you can visually check accelerator pump, and get an idea with what the motor is doing by what comes back out of the carb.

Got some new 98 octane today and another set of plugs just to be sure, so hopefully I'll be able to have another go tonight.

Neo Dutch
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Neo Dutch » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:45 pm

Toilets and Teutell's have petcocks, motorcycles have fuel taps.
Don't let your luggage define your travels.

Bearcx
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Bearcx » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Sorry NEO, I'll file that away with my triple trees. :D
The brave may not live long, but, the cautious do not live at all.

Neo Dutch
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Neo Dutch » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:12 pm

Good lad, you're learning. Don't forget that fenders are for boats and Fenders are for getting with the chicks.
Don't let your luggage define your travels.

gsand
Posts: 268
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Interests: Riding bikes.

Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:43 pm

Alright guys, I'm not sure if we are better or worse.

I ditched the fuel and put in some fresh 98 octane, put another set of new plugs in.... And we have some action (but it's not good).

New plugs - NGK B5ES gapped at .025" (I have always run these without issue)

Fresh fuel - 98 octane.

Points set .018" on both lobes, points cam runs true.

Timing set Static, using the Front cylinder TDC mark (small, low dot on flywheel.), coming up on the narrow lobe on the points cam. I'm also using a buzzer on the points feed and ground so I can hear exactly when the points open/close.

While turning the motor over in the correct direction, the first dot that comes through the timing hole is a larger dot high up near the edge of the flywheel. Then comes the vertical line which should be Front cylinder advance mark. The last mark that comes past is the small, low dot which is front cylinder TDC mark (Which is what I timed it with).

Does this sound correct, or for some reason do I have later flywheels and I'm timing it with the wrong mark....

I know static timing is not an ideal way to time a motor, but It should at least run somewhat. The engine just sounds way way way out, as if one cylinder is firing sort of right and the other is firing on the intake stroke??

Another thing, i've been trying to get this going for a while now, lots and lots of kicks... not a single kickback, which seems kinda odd to me.

Here is a video of what's going on. I'm hoping one of you guys in the know will pick it up straight away. I have triple checked the timing static and I'm sure it's OK, I can't get it to run long enough to get a timing light on it, and to be honest I don't want to run it any more until I know whats going on - it sounds terrible. Also towards the end of the video the engine start to take off by itself, which is when I shut it down.

I've tried to include everything that's relevant, but probably something i've forgotten...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBa_STRy ... e=youtu.be

After this little run and a few very brief fires before the video, this is what the plugs look like. Front cylinder on the left, Rear on the right.
Image

Thanks so much guys - Please help!!!

At this stage I'm about to pull the cam cover out and see if the timing marks line up. Is it possible to put a cam in 180° out and still have the timing marks line up?

It's doing my head in boys!

Prof
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:40 pm

Your points should begin to open on the fire mark not TDC. On a shovel. the bike will run fine with static timing. Once I have statically timed it, I fine tune it by running up and down the road and moving timing a couple of mm each way until I find the sweet spot. I have had others tune it dynamically and they can't get timing any better.

That said I am no expert tuner, but this method has always worked on older bikes for me... except for a bored out xs 650 that we can't get to run right. I am waiting on jets and taking it to a local guy and let him work it out!! I prefer my angle grinder and lathe any day!
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Bearcx
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Bearcx » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:51 pm

Definitely sounds, and looks like, a fuel issue. Sooty plugs, and not starting. Are you sure the engine is at TDC? Leave a plug out, stick a chopstick in the plug hole, and slowly wind the engine over until you reach "physical" top dead centre. Both valves should be shut.
Now check your marks on the flywheel.
The brave may not live long, but, the cautious do not live at all.

KBG
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by KBG » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:09 pm

Are you timing the front cyilinder on the compression stroke?
some meaningless dribble

gsand
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: South Australia
Interests: Riding bikes.

Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by gsand » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:46 pm

Guys and gals... The bike is pretty much done. I had my first test ride today after sorting out my issues which turned out to be lifters.

It runs top banana, heaps of power, starts right up. Just giving it some doing laps around the block to get the motor run in initially.

I still need to make some nice new foot controls with stainless round bar, a more practical sissy bar with a rack and a different frame mounted side stand. I also need a horn.


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Prof
Founder, Choppers Australia
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by Prof » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:19 am

Great news Glenn, will be listening for you.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

El Skitzo
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Re: Shovelhead chopper rebuild. Picture intensive!

Post by El Skitzo » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:38 am

gsand wrote:I also need a horn.
I've got a "horn" now looking at those pics :wink:

Bike looks great, well done!
65 Triumph Chopper (project)

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