N S W MUSHTER 2013

A forum where regional groups can arrange their next meeting or run... When you've gotten a firm date and meeting place and time, email or private message Prof so it can be added to "Next events... page.
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ol_750
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Mallabula (Port Stephens ) NSW

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by ol_750 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:23 pm

What is the differency between Mob rule & Democracy..? ? Just the side of the fence your on ?

Memories of 2009.... "Many Members" were very keen to take CA to bigger & better thing , they were crushed & most left, some hung on trying to keep it a fun place with heaps of info.

The ones that encouraged me to stay & get involved have gone.
Using my democratic right I'm voting with my feet.

Now a "Lurker"

PM comming re the merchandise return.
Ride Hard Live Free
Twisties seperate the men from the boys
FarRider 413 "IT'S JUST A ROAD"
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2 x XJ750RL , 4 x XJ900 , XS650 , XV1000 TR1,VN1500 Classic.

Happosai
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Happosai » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:13 am

OK Prof

So you have restated the rules at me, but you haven't answered my questions.
Prof if these are not your personal standards then whose ?

Who are these many Members? Are they still on this forum ?

Do we actually know the forums members and audience ?

Isn't it a "Choppers Australia" forum, run by you ?

Who are the real and active members, and what do they think and want ?
I'd hazard a guess and say that there are two main demographics on this site.

Newbies and Old Farts

Newbies

Male 20 somethings with a bit of riding under there belt, not real cashed up and wanting something Different to all the Plastic Fantastic out there.

They like the idea of custom bikes and the scene (as portrayed in the American forums and mags) but don't have a large skill set in the cutting, wrenching and welding department.

They likely don't have any family or friends into bikes, and so are looking for mentors to help them on there way, and a safe crowd ride with.

They're keen to learn.

There may be a up to a dozen active on this site.

Old Farts

Male 40 somethings up to the absolutely pre historic.

They have been riding since they were spotty teens, started off on predominantly Jap and Brit bikes, quiet possibly dirt bikes to start, but have owned all sorts through the years.

Some have ridden non stop all through the years, others have put to the side there passion and raised families but they always had that itch.

They are mostly educated to a year 10 level, trained and a acquired a trade or tertiary skill.

They want to enjoy there time they have to themselves, but have lots of competing interests for there time, are easy going, opinionated and grumpy.

They usually have dry to wicked sense of humour and a well developed ability to take the pi ss, in a friendly and self deprecating way.

They like to tinker in there sheds and stuff shite up, to use there hands and minds, to help and share there knowledge.

There may be up to 2 dozen active on this site.

Nowhere in the mix do I see the teensters, there busy doing selfies on FaceBook, Tumbler, Twitter and instagram.

I may be way off here, but I doubt it, and if this the demographics of the active majority on this site then why not have rules that allow that little bit of mately rivalry and oddball humour, that great aussie larikinism.

Cant hurt can it ?

Lifes to short for Bull Shite.


Hap
I used to be Vague...................Now I'm not so sure

Bacca

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Bacca » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:10 pm

I have to agree the rules on here are crazily tight!!! :?

Youngblood
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:48 pm
Location: North-Eastern suburbs- Adelaide

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Youngblood » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:09 am

I agree with you Happosai regarding that there are two main demographics on this site and your description of them.
However
I may be way off here, but I doubt it, and if this the demographics of the active majority on this site then why not have rules that allow that little bit of mately rivalry and oddball humour, that great aussie larikinism.

Cant hurt can it ?
I disagree with the "Cant hurt can it?" statement, I think it can because not everybody likes, appreciates or gets the mately rivalry and oddball humour or that great aussie larrikinism. We are all different and something you or I may find funny could be interpreted as insulting to someone else. I think that's where the problem lies, "You can't please everyone" phrase comes to my mind. If the rules are strict people get upset and if the rules get relaxed because of the upset people then some other people become upset. "Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't" is another phrase that comes to mind.
Post by Bacca » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:40 pm

I have to agree the rules on here are crazily tight!!!
I think the rules on here are crazily tight is a good thing, at least we all know what to expect and what we'll get when we come on this site and if you feel like giving someone a bit of ribbing PM him/her or go to another forum, I do.

Now as Happosai said "Lifes to short for Bull Shite" lets go for a ride and enjoy life.
:) :) :)
Youngblood

Happosai
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Happosai » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:07 am

Youngblood wrote:I agree with you Happosai regarding that there are two main demographics on this site and your description of them.
However
<snipped>

I disagree with the "Cant hurt can it?" statement, I think it can because not everybody likes, appreciates or gets the mately rivalry and oddball humour or that great aussie larrikinism. We are all different and something you or I may find funny could be interpreted as insulting to someone else. I think that's where the problem lies, "You can't please everyone" phrase comes to my mind. If the rules are strict people get upset and if the rules get relaxed because of the upset people then some other people become upset. "Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't" is another phrase that comes to mind.

<Snipped>
I think the rules on here are crazily tight is a good thing, at least we all know what to expect and what we'll get when we come on this site and if you feel like giving someone a bit of ribbing PM him/her or go to another forum, I do.

Now as Happosai said "Lifes to short for Bull Shite" lets go for a ride and enjoy life.
:) :) :)
Glad you agree with my assesment of the main demagraphics.

Where I work, it used to be that all the rules for doing things were really tight in case some one did something illegal, so everyone was restricted on the off chance something MAY happen, productivity was low, moral was low, and the frustration of the staff was high because they were being treated like criminals by managment.

A major change in philosophy at the highest Managment level changed all this, it was decided to TRUST the staff to do the right thing, and deal with the illegal activity appropriately IF & When it occured.

This display of Trust changed the way the staff percieved the managment, and managment backed up the trust by simplifying all the proccess, making systems and work arrangements more flexible - and guess what Illegal activity DID NOT go through the roof, productivity increased, staff frustration levels dropped dramatically because they were being treated as responsible adults who knew wrong from right.

It has created a much more agreable environment to work in, and staff have so much less buerocracy to deal with, Turns out to be a win win for the company.

With the numbers of people on here and posting dwindling, for this Forum to survive and flurish the members need to feel a part of it, to be respected and trusted to do the right thing, to have there voices heard, for the site to be trully representative of the actual demographics, not to be treated like children and restricted due to fear that some one MIGHT say the wrong thing.

To my eyes this is not happening, I say these thing not to denegrate the work that has been done, but to highlight the pitfalls that I have seen else wheres, If the site Owners/Admins don't head the call I believe that in all to short a time the site will just become irrelevant to the majority, dwindle and die, which is a shame as there a great aspects to the site.

As a father my role as a parent is not to tell my children what to do and how to live, it's to teach them the skills to make happy healthy choices so that they will be able to stand proud on there own.

Forums are like children, we bring them into being, we nurchure them, we giude them, we care for them, but ultimately they grow an identity of there own, and as much as we the parents might want to protect them, keep them safe, eventually they have to stand on there own two feet.

I feel I've said enough, ultimately it will be up to Prof and his team to decide how it will go, but sadly I hold little hope for it.

Hap
I used to be Vague...................Now I'm not so sure

Youngblood
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:48 pm
Location: North-Eastern suburbs- Adelaide

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Youngblood » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Happosai I have gone through something very similar at one of the jobs I used to work at and I agree with you with most of the things you have said so far but in the virtual world of the internet some people become total you know what. Its because they are faceless people and think\know they will get away with whatever they say because nobody knows who they are or where they live and as such will not be confronted by a real person or persons.

You are also right that it is ultimately up the Prof how Choppers Australia and Its website is run after all its his baby. I have found Prof as a very nice and helpful person and in my personal experience with him he has always listen to what I or other people have had to say. His responds has always been thoughtful and never dismissive. I find him a bit old school in that he doesn't like bad language or bad manners and I must say neither do I. Also I must say I have never had a post altered or removed so he can't be that bad.

I like this site because its all about being positive, friendly and helpful and you don't get talked down to because you don't ride a real bike (Harley) or you're not a biker because you don't do hundreds of km on a run. I don't want to hear that sort of garbage, I have heard it all before . I don't need to proof that I'm a MAN and that I'm TUFF garbage. I grew up in a bikie household with all the language and violence and the rest that goes with it, who needs it. So I restate that I like this site because its all about being positive, friendly and helpful.

This is my last 2 cents worth on this subject.

:) :) :)
Youngblood

Happosai
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Happosai » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:58 am

I said I'd said enough but this deserves a respectful response
Youngblood wrote:Happosai I have gone through something very similar at one of the jobs I used to work at and I agree with you with most of the things you have said so far but in the virtual world of the internet some people become total you know what. Its because they are faceless people and think\know they will get away with whatever they say because nobody knows who they are or where they live and as such will not be confronted by a real person or persons.
There are ways of dealing with the faceless Dicks on an internet site, that is the role of the Admistrator and the Moderators, which on this site are:

Admin - ol_750 (Last visited:Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:20 pm) & Prof (Last visited:Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:48 pm)

Mods - Pommychopper (Last visited:Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:17 pm), Squirt (Last visited:Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:51 am), Chopper Project Moderators (Prof) CustomMead (Last visited:Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:13 am), For Sale Moderators (Prof)

The Admin have the responsabilty to ensure the smooth running of the site, dealing appropriately and consistantly with any miss doings on the site.
You are also right that it is ultimately up the Prof how Choppers Australia and Its website is run after all its his baby.
Yes it was his baby, but as I've said, forums are bigger than one person, they are the sum of all the participants, they live and die by the input of the members posting.
I have found Prof as a very nice and helpful person and in my personal experience with him he has always listen to what I or other people have had to say. His responds has always been thoughtful and never dismissive.
While I have not meet or spoken to Andrew, and hold no malice toward him I find his absense from the discussion up to this point quite obvious, and I have not seen any attempt to answer any of my questions, rebuff my assumptions or otherwise engage in the conversation. In his silence hes says volumes.
I find him a bit old school in that he doesn't like bad language or bad manners and I must say neither do I.
I don't like profanity either, but I am mature enough to accept the rude word can be very expressive, and a common part of our venacular.
Also I must say I have never had a post altered or removed so he can't be that bad.
Your one of the lucky ones.
I like this site because its all about being positive, friendly and helpful and you don't get talked down to because you don't ride a real bike (Harley) or you're not a biker because you don't do hundreds of km on a run. I don't want to hear that sort of garbage, I have heard it all before . I don't need to proof that I'm a MAN and that I'm TUFF garbage. I grew up in a bikie household with all the language and violence and the rest that goes with it, who needs it.
I agree, I abhour violences as well, but we are not talking about abuse here, we are talking about MA + stuff, levels of humour, ribbing and friendly rivalry.
So I restate that I like this site because its all about being positive, friendly and helpful.
That has been the thing I like about it too, but I also feel that Andrew appeares not to be hearing what the Forum members are saying, he's not showing any thoughtfullness, and his lack of engagment appears dismissive.
This is my last 2 cents worth on this subject.

:) :) :)
Yes I think I will wait patiently and see if any of my questions will be answered.

It's up to you Andrew.

Hap
I used to be Vague...................Now I'm not so sure

neale
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:57 pm
Location: Sydeny NSW

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by neale » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:20 am

While I agree with the vast majority of the points that Happosai has made, there are some observations that I would like to make here, and also feel it's salient to point out that Happosai is far from the only one who perceives the current state of the forums in this way.

Youngblood, I am glad for you that your experiences within the forum have apparently been mostly idyllic and rewarding, but it is a tad patronising and presumptuous to hold the belief that all have the same experiences that you have.

What has come to be more apparent to me, the longer I have been in the forum, is that the focus is entirely centred on the Chopper Shed, and the further from the Chopper Shed members or events are, the less consideration and merit is given to them. Therefore, I can quite understand that the "home team" who are within a critical distance of 50-100 KM of the Chopper Shed are content with the current state of affairs, as the majority of the scheduling, attention and assistance are focused on them. For those of us further away, however, our events, opinions and requests are largely dismissed. Also, the terms and actions described in regard to "every" financial member by Andrew MAY be accurate for those in close proximity to the Chopper Shed. but they are most certainly not accurate for "every" member, what was described definitely didn't occur with me, and I expect many others as well, so to categorically state that we have ALL agreed to those terms prior to joining is a rather misleading statement. As I have previously stated, I was happy to agree to the rather more generic terms that I was made aware of when I joined, but if the arbitrary and heavy handed terms that are currently being represented as the terms that have "always" applied had existed at that point, I was most certainly NOT advised of or directed to them at the time, if I was I probably would have passed on joining, as in my view they are not appropriate for a group of mature adults (by my observations the median age of members is close to 50 years old, if not older, so the membership should definitely be regarded as mature adults).

So, to conclude, I am happy for you if the forums are run according to your wishes and you were, in fact, advised up front of these rules, but please don't presume that we have all been treated in the same manner as you. The maxim of "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" appears to be the prime rule from what I have seen.

Regards,

Neale
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

ol_750
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Mallabula (Port Stephens ) NSW

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by ol_750 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:18 am

Happosai wrote:I said I'd said enough but this deserves a respectful response

There are ways of dealing with the faceless Dicks on an internet site, that is the role of the Admistrator and the Moderators, which on this site are:

Admin - ol_750 (Last visited:Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:20 pm) & Prof (Last visited:Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:48 pm)

Mods - Pommychopper (Last visited:Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:17 pm), Squirt (Last visited:Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:51 am), Chopper Project Moderators (Prof) CustomMead (Last visited:Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:13 am), For Sale Moderators (Prof)

The Admin have the responsabilty to ensure the smooth running of the site, dealing appropriately and consistantly with any miss doings on the site.

Hap
:shock: Just like to clarify a point... I'm not an administrator & never have been. I just looked after the merchandise , yes I have access to forum tools to promote the sale of merchandise. 8)
Ride Hard Live Free
Twisties seperate the men from the boys
FarRider 413 "IT'S JUST A ROAD"
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2 x XJ750RL , 4 x XJ900 , XS650 , XV1000 TR1,VN1500 Classic.

Youngblood
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:48 pm
Location: North-Eastern suburbs- Adelaide

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Youngblood » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:19 pm

but it is a tad patronising and presumptuous to hold the belief that all have the same experiences that you have.
I certainly do not think that everyone has had the same experience as me!!!! :? In fact I stated that we are all individuals and what you and I may find funny someone else will find insulting. If everyone had the same experience as me we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?
Youngblood

Prof
Founder, Choppers Australia
Posts: 5885
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Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Prof » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:32 pm

Yes, the standards chosen for the forums are my personal standards... and the standards of a very substantial number of our users. Many use these forums but don't post (frustratingly on my part) and I have had more than a dozen conversations telling me to stick to my guns.

However, I'm not about 'sticking to my guns'. In the past as some of you will be aware, I have tried to accommodate a more relaxed approach, but things very quickly degenerated into slanging matches and language and sexual references that any intelligent person would know do not fit any version of a 'G rating' . A case in point is Pygmy's constant harping on you not being a real rider if you wouldn't do the long fast trips he likes... despite the fact that in the years he has been involved, he has been on only three of four out of many dozens of south Australian CA rides. His comments were not only very inaccurate, but demeaning to the rest of out membership and thoroughly annoying to most as well... One comment would have been funny, but the constant repeats not so.

It is a misconception that one is only an adult once one incorporates swearing, sexual references and slagging others in their daily language. If you like that atmosphere that is your decision. It is judgemental however to claim that a significant proportion who chose different standards are somehow not grown up yet.

As stated by another poster here, the jocular aussie larrikinism can appear to work face to face in the appropriate situations... but is usually a disaster when tried on a forum. Research however is quite clear... the human brain can not tell the difference between a put down in jest and one done seriously and done repeatedly destroys an individuals sense of self worth... remember that when talking to your family.

As far as being a dictatorship, plenty of changes have been made to the forums that have come as a result of user requests. Other changes requested have not occurred because I do not have the skills to make the changes and despite many requests for help have received little... the one exception being Phil who also got frustrated because due to server changes, Michael who handles that side was beating his head against a brick wall for months trying to get the information Phil needed to implement what we had planned to do... exit my one and only help.

Maybe our standards haven't been stated clearly enough. We thought everyone would understand 'G rating". So perhaps it should specify, 'No swearing.' But then we'd eventually have a big debate about what is currently classified as a swear word and be back where we are now anyway. The rest of the wording is surely very clear, but sexual references are still made.

This website was set up by myself with the input from a number of other guys. We set up the standards for this site because there were no other bike sites we could find that were chopper orientated (virtually no chopper sites at all at that time) and that catered for the general rider who did not want displays of attitude, bad language or sexual references.

These are the standards I am endeavouring to maintain.

I understand that for many it is a bit of a challenge to adhere to our stated standards and it is for this reason that unlike other forums that simply delete whole posts and ban posters, I have not done this but have spent time editing to retain the posts meaning with as little change as possible. No admin on any forum us required to explain themselves and every forum I have been on states that disagreements with admins are to be privately presented to the admin, not brought into public debate.

I believe I have gone well beyond what is required of me as an admin. Please note that we are talking about less than one deleted post every 3 or 4 months and perhaps an edit once a month if that... not really much if you think about it. The deleted posts have more often than not been in the jokes section and the commonly doubled up post.

Comment has often been made that the guys getting upset and leaving are the very guys that do most of the posting and supply much of the help to new or inexperienced members... and I agree entirely which has made this whole thing all the more difficult for me. And I understand that it is thoroughly frustrating to them that they feel they have put so much into the forums and now feel slighted by my sticking to our standards at their expense. I periodically try to encourage the 'lurkers' to join in posting. A year or so ago I modified my registration reply to encourage the new forum member to join in, and some but not most do. The guys leaving are a great loss to the forum and my hope is that down the track they will join back in, not for my sake, but for the sake of all the new chopper enthusiasts we attract.

Choppers Australia Network and the forums are not about The Chopper Shed. Most of my business comes from my own website with my customers then going on the forums. I have more work than I can poke a stick at and Xssesive for one will tell you that I have sent a number of guys to him when I could have had them getting me to do their work. I have also encouraged Victorians and SA guys to get work done with others I thought might be able to help them. Most of my customers end up working on their bikes in my workshop as a way of teaching them and saving them money and I put up detailed posts to help others have a go themselves rather than being reliant on a shop. I am committed to promoting choppers not feathering my own nest.

In CA each state is responsible for their own rides and I have regularly made suggestions and given encouragement to locals in each state to catch up with each other over a beer, coffee or shed visit. The whole purpose of the financial membership list is for locals to get in contact and ride and visit each other.

SA have monthly runs and other events because locals organise them.

I guess some of the SA guys posting have made some comments as to their opinion of my motivation and attitude, because they have seen me in operation personally. Older CA members will know that I used to call each CA financial member in Australia once or twice a year for a chat, but this has become impossible for me since Paul's accidents. Ideally the state coordinators should be calling their state members regularly as well as coordinating and organising rides. Coordinating these things is a fair commitment and a mostly thankless task as chopper riders seem to be very individualistic and few of us have the kind of time that was available in the 70's. Understandably few guys stick at state or run coordination for long... except for the NSW guys.

Why haven't I answered sooner... I could give a list of reasons and what I have had to do over the last week, but accept that I have got to this as soon as I could.

Hopefully I have answered all questions and accusations.

The forums will retain their current standards... and I hope that those who have been swayed will see the benefits of sharing their knowledge and encouragement on this site.

We were told when we were planning this site and network that 'g rating' would not work for bikers. We have our ups and downs but each time I have been encouraged to maintain our position and overall, I think over our eight years of operations we have had a major positive influence on the chopper movement worldwide... and most importantly to me... helped a lot of Australian chopper riders find some good riding mates.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Pygmy
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:28 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Pygmy » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:59 am

well mr prof your previous posts have harp on about not rubbishing other riders on this forum and having positive remarks, but it hasn't stopped you from sticking the knife into me. lets get the facts right at no stage have I ever knocked any body from riding their bikes other wise I would have put sh---t on the pan cake kitchen rides or the sunset rides on the beach but I have never bought that up. I don't ride fast every where as you have stated as the interstate riders will verify. my sole purpose for stiring the pot was to get blokes of the bums and actually do a few decent rides, I don't care what people ride or how far they go , what gets me is you pander to all the lurkers on this site to feather your own nest, and if you remember correctly at the sa muster I bought my trailer to help with the trans port of bikes for you and also bought my sand drag bike as well as my chopper which is a lot more than others have done, yet you find time to come on here and rubbish me. let me give the members a couple of other facts before I sign off for good. you have been invited to nsw for the last four years but have come up with an excuse every year thinking they are a ,drunken, swearing bunch of rable, how far from the truth that is they are absolute gentle men and their wives and girl friends, but you still had the cheek to ask tex and the nsw riders to ride over to wa with you but wouldn't go to nsw to promote there mushter a bit of a hippocrite I think. I know how you set this club up from the start having spoke to people in the know and most of what you have written in your posts is crap. its time to tell the truth its your way your club and if you don't like get lost same as you told the murray bridge and mannum boys that's why they left. the membership numbers in choppers an bobbers is false as I have rung a few of them and they have stated they havernt been members for over 2 year so stop putting up false numbers to make the site look good. and last but not least seeing that you like to stick to the rules for this site here is one for you, at no stage did I give you permission to use a picture of my bike to premote your chopper shed bussiness being as it was never built there in the first place and most of the work you done had to be done over again by me. it is a shame you are stil living in the past prof because your one eyed opinions have ruined what could have been great. I don't expect this post to last long on here so I will say my good buys to the few honest guys left on the site. last count you were down close to 20 members who have left in the last 2 weeks. you now have my permission to delete me from the site membership as I have know wish to participate any more. and remove my chopper photos. pygmy
Two speeds... flat out and stop

Prof
Founder, Choppers Australia
Posts: 5885
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Willunga, South Australia
Contact:

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Prof » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:04 am

Pygmy, I fully support the Mushter , have promoted as much as I could and have privately contacted SA members who I thought might be able to make it. I am thoroughly frustrated that I have not been able to get there, as I think the blokes who go are a great bunch of genuine guys. I had expected to be there this year despite loss of considerable workshop income and a ridiculously hectic schedule due to Paul's problems, but the local main bike only swap meet which is where do one of our main stalls was for the first time put onto the long weekend.

I have never considered any members in the terms you have described so I don't know where you have gotten that from.

I have made no claims for work on your Honda chopper that I did not do. I get permission from everone whose bike comes into the shed if it is ok to put up posts about the work on it... and that includes yourself. I encouraged you to do as much work as you could on it including most of the wiring. It is much easier for me to simply do a job on bikes rather than spend the time helping the owner time which I invariably underestimate when it comes to charging them for my time, as I love teaching and seeing guys learn do something they couldn't do before.

I fully agree that you attended a number of our musters, brought your drag bike and trailer up and helped transport bikes and were recognised for that. The fact that your posts were written to try to get other blokes riding is the reason that I accepted them and privately defended you against complaints that they were negative for so long... and you do know that I have spoken with you about doing it in a positive way rather than negative.

Membership in CA is current. I have not been notified of any who are on the list ceasing membership . As all members know, I have been unable to get out newsletters and the magazine for 18 months and so yes, as a number drop off each year due to changed circumstances the numbers will be different. This latest incident will no doubt see a reduction in membership... but until I am notified, or a membership is not paid, I really have no right to delete anyone do I?

Numbers of people have come on as members and left, deciding our network is not for them and that is their prerogative. I have never claimed we are the only chopper organisation or aimed to make it that. Chopper riders are individuals and there is room for plenty of chopper groups... be nice if we could all get on despite our differences. Everyone who has taken out membership in CA since 2006 have known that we do not have elected office holders and everyone has agreed, most of them very enthusiastically, that that is what they want. Initially we expected to incorporate, but it is not practical in our situation for a variety of reasons and it was mainly over that issue that the m&m's pulled out. The vast majority of members have stated that they fully this decision.

CA is a network of riders, not a traditional bike club. It's purpose is to provide a place to meet other chopper enthusiasts, to find guys of like mind close to you to be able to enjoy all aspects of choppers together as well as be able to find guys in other states as you are travelling through that's why our motto... "where chopper riders meet..." It is secondly an information service which is why the forums are so valuable and it is a pity more guys don't understand that and see the value of helping and teaching others and learning.

Being a forum makes it so easy to post within the standards, because once you have written a post you can reread it and check... not get caught out saying something without thinking or in the heat of the moment and not being able to retract it.

I am not interested in making our numbers look good... not building a kingdom here, just trying to provide a service no one else does.

Don't know that there is much more to be said, so about time we got back onto the topic of choppers...
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Happosai
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by Happosai » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:19 pm

Thanks Prof for your responses.

While it doesn't answer all my questions, it confirms my understanding.

If only all those Lurkers who you try to appease would come out of the woodwork and post, in the meantime those who do post will have to make up there own minds as to wether this is the forum for them.

Best of luck with that.

Hap
I used to be Vague...................Now I'm not so sure

78gold
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Sydney NSW Australia

Re: N S W MUSHTER 2013

Post by 78gold » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:01 pm

Hi All,
I havn't posted here yet as I PM'd Prof direct with my thoughts and I don't propose to re-post here at this time.
Prof was willing to send me a comprehensive response and while I don't agree with his stand in relation to this matter,
at least I now have an understanding of where he is coming from.

I will remain on this site and although not a high volume poster will still respond occasionally where I have an interest.
Provided of course that Prof wants me to remain.

That said I still support those that are not happy here and will be assisting them where possible to create an atmosphere where we can continue to stay in touch at a level acceptable to the majority. What format that will take is unknown at this stage although email is always available.

I must say that the fact that this topic has been allowed to continue unabated is refreshing as many sites would just close it down and ban non conforming members, something Prof hasn't done. I think that deserves some Cudo's.

It is the the inflexibility of the rules and the level of "G" Content allowed that I find difficult to support. Maybe its a societal divide but its hard to try and curb 50+ years of behaviour when posting here. I cannot count the times I find myself having to modify or delete messages before posting to the site as I thought it might cause issues. I have had things slip through that I thought would be pulled up and items pulled up/changed that I thought would be ok. It does get tedious and removes some of the enjoyment in being part of the forum when I have to filter everything that goes from brain to keyboard.

Obviously as with everyone I have a finite amount of time to spend on Forums, websites etc and my activity will be spent wherever I can spend my time with like minded individuals.

As I said, if welcome, I will continue to lurk and post occasionally but as most of the close relationships I have developed here are with those no longer posting here my posts will not be frequent.

Ride Safe everyone and I will give you a wave next time we pass on the road.
Nigel
78 Gold
Nigel
78 Gold

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